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Humphrey 3 hours ago [-]
Oh finally multi-window support - I might finally be able to flutter for a simple desktop app side project I've been wanting to build.
synergy20 3 hours ago [-]
great for mobile apps, fine for desktops, basically unusable for browsers unless you do wasm, if web can be revamped/improved it can be the best option for cross platform GUI
eklavya 1 hours ago [-]
You are in luck then, use jaspr.
tonyhart7 2 hours ago [-]
no one and absolutely no one pick flutter because they want do traditional web in the first place
its a cross platform framework that you can share component between mobile and other platform and always has been
999900000999 2 hours ago [-]
I’ve used flutter for a couple of toy web apps. One is just a personal tool , another is a small party game.
Now I might vibe code such things using React, but 5 , 6 years ago Flutter got me what I wanted fast.
Firebase integration is absurdly easy. You can make a crud app in about 30 minutes
Aldo_MX 4 hours ago [-]
Decoupling material and cupertino makes a lot of sense.
gman83 4 hours ago [-]
Yes, hopefully now that this decoupling is complete, they'll actually start being updated again. The progress was a bit stalled while this process was ongoing.
hirvi74 14 minutes ago [-]
I've never used Kotlin, but I really enjoy Flutter. Not nearly as much as SwiftUI and the Lord's language, mind you.
Flutter can get you up and running quickly. If I want cross-plaform support, one codebase is hard to beat.
jimbob45 4 hours ago [-]
Of all the myriad projects from Google, how is Flutter/Dart the one that survived the axe? I’m not saying I hate them - I think they’re both really neat - I just don’t understand why Google keeps these limping along with weak support and no clear vision within their broader web ecosystem.
vmg12 4 hours ago [-]
Easy, there are a few google teams that use flutter and the cost savings from not having to have dedicated ios and android teams is very easy to point at to justify the project's existence.
I think Dart and Flutter are very overlooked. The language has completely changed since its release, its statically typed, has null safety, enums, and pattern matching, and is very simple and easy to read. It has fast compilation and a ui framework with hot reload. It's as fast as Js on v8 while using less memory and has the overlooked feature of having very fast, almost 0 overhead, ffi.
I think the importance of good ffi is underrated for these ui languages. For reference, everyone that's using electron has to run two node processes doing ipc over a websocket connection. That's going to waste an absurd number of cpu cycles and memory when you are passing messages around when your app is basically a ui for a cli.
Larrikin 4 hours ago [-]
But they also fund JetBrains, Jetpack Compose, and KMP. It feels like the company threw their support behind Kotlin a long while ago on mobile, but internal struggles keep the others limping along. Compose UI tooling no longer requires viewing on device.
wiseowise 55 minutes ago [-]
Only because it was cheaper to migrate Android to Kotlin instead of Dart. JetBrains needs Google more than Google needs JetBrains.
invalidname 3 hours ago [-]
You're thinking of Google as a single top down company. It isn't. Think of it as an anarchy of warlords where each pulls the strings and management doesn't really know what's going on.
Flutter made a lot of sense during the Oracle lawsuit when Google needed a way to show Oracle that it can pivot from Java. Now it no longer makes sense but the inertia is too deep.
My guess is that flutter is sold internally through the Huawei support as a leg within China.
4 hours ago [-]
cageface 4 hours ago [-]
I’ve had good experiences with Flutter too. It’s actually much easier to build a performant macOS app with flutter than with SwiftUI.
wiseowise 53 minutes ago [-]
> It’s actually much easier to build a performant macOS app with flutter than with SwiftUI.
Got any case studies?
formvoltron 4 hours ago [-]
Curious how you feel about KMP and Kotlin Compose.
vmg12 4 hours ago [-]
I like kotlin a lot but I didn't get to fully test KMP and Kotlin Compose. I chose flutter because I liked dart's wasm story better than kotlins.
gumby271 4 hours ago [-]
How are they limping? Flutter has completely replaced it's rendering engine across all platforms and they're building out major window management support on desktop platforms.
At some point there's just not much exciting new stuff to add. Flutter is a nice stable platform, I'd highly recommend it.
kllrnohj 3 hours ago [-]
> Flutter has completely replaced it's rendering engine across all platforms
And that new rendering engine is also why apps like Immich are unable to show HDR photos. Apple & Google both pushed broad support for that a couple years ago, with things like Ultra HDR and subsequently ISO 21496-1.
Of course they need to prioritize where to spend resources, like any project, but Flutter also doesn't seem to be on any critical path for fancy headlining new features, either.
matchbok3 4 hours ago [-]
Right, but, nobody uses it. So what's the point for Google?
doodlesdev 3 hours ago [-]
I've made a huge critic towards Flutter in another comment of mine, but adoption isn't it: the biggest bank in Brazil, with 135 million clients, is a digital bank whose sole interface is their Flutter app. They are different regarding tech choices (they use Clojure on the backend too), but I think it's a huge testament of how far along Flutter adoption has come.
Nubank also uses clojure and adoption is still a big issue.
filleduchaos 3 minutes ago [-]
[delayed]
vips7L 3 hours ago [-]
The creator of flutter was on here saying that 1/3 of all apps on the App Store use it. That seems to be a lot more than “nobody”.
owebmaster 2 hours ago [-]
The creator of flutter lied then. That's not true.
vips7L 22 minutes ago [-]
How do you know? Why are we inclined to believe you over him?
gkhartman 4 hours ago [-]
Is that true though? I'm reading HN on an app built using Flutter. I had no idea until recently, so I would assume more apps could use it without my knowledge.
I understand it's limitations vs native apps, but there's quite a few cases where it really doesn't matter.
The biggest one for me is always the fear it will be abandoned. Pretty much goes for any cross platform app framework though.
I used to work at ByteDance and they alone employed I think more than 800 Flutter Devs. Douyin uses Flutter (the Chinese version of TikTok), Grab and Ebay use it, Alibaba and Baidu did too. Toyota and Volkswagen I think both use Flutter. Nubank I think is also a flutter app and they alone have like one hundred million some users.
With the popularity in the Chinese ecosystem alone there's gotta be a billion plus people using flutter.
monocasa 3 hours ago [-]
Google AdSense uses it.
gman83 4 hours ago [-]
I guess because they have buy-in from within Google? Google Pay, NotebookLM, Family Link, Google One, etc. are made with Flutter.
monocasa 4 hours ago [-]
Google internally uses dart, and I remember hearing that adwords in particular was rewritten in dart at least for the frontend relatively recently.
So they're probably investing in it enough for basic maintenance, but don't really care about evolving the language.
skybrian 2 hours ago [-]
Sure, Adwords migrated from GWT to Dart. (And eventually I followed.) At one point, Dart moved from the Chrome division to the Adwords division. And Adwords alone can fund a team to do developer tools for them. Then, Flutter came a bit later.
It's been over a decade since then, though, and I'm out of touch now.
deepsun 4 hours ago [-]
Most Google's projects that users loved were axed for a reason, typically internal management wars for promotions. Like YouTube really wanted to kill belowed Google Music, so they did. Or Google Pay vs Google Wallet.
Killing Flutter would not promote a manager. For now, of course.
Scene_Cast2 4 hours ago [-]
In one of their dev surveys, they did float the idea of divesting Flutter.
4 hours ago [-]
sunsetSamurai 2 hours ago [-]
how's Dart for back end development? is anybody using it to build APIs? the syntax doesn't look too bad
wstrange 2 hours ago [-]
Try out serverpod. Not affiliated with them- it's just a super nice integrated Dart backend:
The one thing I hate about flutter is the ui code having an ungodly amount of nested brackets.
skeledrew 2 hours ago [-]
For some reason I prefer those to curlies.
eddythompson80 4 hours ago [-]
You clearly need more Lispmaxxing
4 hours ago [-]
superze 3 hours ago [-]
Loc goes brrrrrrr. The tokenmaxxing of the 20s
cocoa19 1 hours ago [-]
Didn't realize it until now, but you're right.
LOC is dead, long live token usage.
Scene_Cast2 3 hours ago [-]
Awesome. I'd love if Flutter could also finally get Impeller on Web (I'm tracking the GitHub issues, seems like there's progress at least).
I personally would like for it to pick up some ideas from Svelte.
wiseowise 59 minutes ago [-]
> We are actively working toward enabling WebAssembly (Wasm) by default for Flutter web applications, bringing native-like performance to the browser.
lol.
skeledrew 2 hours ago [-]
Been waiting especially for multi-window so it can be picked up by Flet.
theanonymousone 2 hours ago [-]
Are you using Flet? If yes do you think it's mature enough and has a potential to stay long "in the game"?
skeledrew 2 hours ago [-]
I use Flet in a few projects. It's still somewhat young and the declarative move caused a few issues (for me, mainly because I wasn't familiar with the pattern), but generally I'd say it's stable, feature-complete and the maintainer seems to be in it for the long haul. Also it fills a critical gap that nothing else does, binding a decent UI framework and cross-platform capability to a language with an extremely large and diverse ecosystem; that's what I think will really make it endure.
amazingamazing 2 hours ago [-]
I always find it strange that flutter isn’t built with golang or typescript. Why use a new language? When flutter came out both languages existed so curious about that.
The main reason i can think of is generics not existing initially
bbkane 1 hours ago [-]
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted, it's a super reasonable question.
Iirc the reason is that the Dart team was willing to heavily modify the language and runtime to accommodate the needs of Flutter and the V8 team wasn't.
While I've used Flutter since Alpha, I've been away for a few years. A few things have shocked me in these release notes: how come Impeller still wasn't the default engine for all platforms? Also, why are they migrating to WASM if one of the core features of Dart is compiling to JavaScript? Finally, how come multi window support only get viable now, after four years having desktop support?
Honestly, Flutter is an extremely enjoyable development experience I would recommend anyone I care for to stay away from. The fact it's developed by Google doesn't help: it's a matter of time before they kill it like they did with so many UI libraries and frameworks already, specially with JetBrains developing Compose Multiplatform and the Android team going all-in in the Compose strategy.
maxloh 2 hours ago [-]
Flutter operates more like a 2D game engine. It renders its own views, which involves a lot of arithmetic operations, making WASM a more efficient option than JS.
skybrian 3 hours ago [-]
I suppose AI would help for porting your app if you need to? It's not like the old days.
ls-a 2 hours ago [-]
This blogpost could've been an mcp doc. Who needs to know about this stuff these days? AI will never pick flutter for a project anyway
its a cross platform framework that you can share component between mobile and other platform and always has been
Now I might vibe code such things using React, but 5 , 6 years ago Flutter got me what I wanted fast.
Firebase integration is absurdly easy. You can make a crud app in about 30 minutes
Flutter can get you up and running quickly. If I want cross-plaform support, one codebase is hard to beat.
I think Dart and Flutter are very overlooked. The language has completely changed since its release, its statically typed, has null safety, enums, and pattern matching, and is very simple and easy to read. It has fast compilation and a ui framework with hot reload. It's as fast as Js on v8 while using less memory and has the overlooked feature of having very fast, almost 0 overhead, ffi.
I think the importance of good ffi is underrated for these ui languages. For reference, everyone that's using electron has to run two node processes doing ipc over a websocket connection. That's going to waste an absurd number of cpu cycles and memory when you are passing messages around when your app is basically a ui for a cli.
Flutter made a lot of sense during the Oracle lawsuit when Google needed a way to show Oracle that it can pivot from Java. Now it no longer makes sense but the inertia is too deep.
My guess is that flutter is sold internally through the Huawei support as a leg within China.
Got any case studies?
At some point there's just not much exciting new stuff to add. Flutter is a nice stable platform, I'd highly recommend it.
And that new rendering engine is also why apps like Immich are unable to show HDR photos. Apple & Google both pushed broad support for that a couple years ago, with things like Ultra HDR and subsequently ISO 21496-1.
Meanwhile Flutter still doesn't really have wide gamut support https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/189155
Of course they need to prioritize where to spend resources, like any project, but Flutter also doesn't seem to be on any critical path for fancy headlining new features, either.
Also, Google dogfoods it quite a bit.
https://flutter.dev/showcase/nubank
I understand it's limitations vs native apps, but there's quite a few cases where it really doesn't matter.
The biggest one for me is always the fear it will be abandoned. Pretty much goes for any cross platform app framework though.
I used to work at ByteDance and they alone employed I think more than 800 Flutter Devs. Douyin uses Flutter (the Chinese version of TikTok), Grab and Ebay use it, Alibaba and Baidu did too. Toyota and Volkswagen I think both use Flutter. Nubank I think is also a flutter app and they alone have like one hundred million some users.
With the popularity in the Chinese ecosystem alone there's gotta be a billion plus people using flutter.
So they're probably investing in it enough for basic maintenance, but don't really care about evolving the language.
It's been over a decade since then, though, and I'm out of touch now.
Killing Flutter would not promote a manager. For now, of course.
https://serverpod.dev/
LOC is dead, long live token usage.
I personally would like for it to pick up some ideas from Svelte.
lol.
The main reason i can think of is generics not existing initially
Iirc the reason is that the Dart team was willing to heavily modify the language and runtime to accommodate the needs of Flutter and the V8 team wasn't.
I think this is the video that talks about this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xqGAC5QCYuQ
Honestly, Flutter is an extremely enjoyable development experience I would recommend anyone I care for to stay away from. The fact it's developed by Google doesn't help: it's a matter of time before they kill it like they did with so many UI libraries and frameworks already, specially with JetBrains developing Compose Multiplatform and the Android team going all-in in the Compose strategy.